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Post Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:31 pm 
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So, After talking with Scotty for 20 Minutes, I made the call to keep cutting into the damn thing. I just dont know how bad the rest of the stringer system is, and frankly, there is just WAY too much wood and wet foam.

Looks like this will be a complete rebuild afterall.......S%it.

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Post Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:09 pm 
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Hi Fletch,
Glad you got it over here now.

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Post Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:19 pm 
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WELCOME ABOARD my friend!! sFun_crazydance

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Post Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:29 pm 
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Oh and PS. Thanks for referring to me as a Master Rebuilder over there. Got a nice chuckle out of that for a variety of reasons! sHa_dielaughing

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Post Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:01 pm 
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Christian, whassup dude??!! :1992_beer_cheer: :1992_beer_cheer:

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Post Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:05 pm 
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speaking of soft spot, this hull design will always have a soft spot in my heart. Glad to see you over here. the inside looks just like my 17. so since your doing a full rebuild, you have any layout changes? keep us updated

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Post Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 6:53 pm 
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gran398 wrote:
Oh and PS. Thanks for referring to me as a Master Rebuilder over there. Got a nice chuckle out of that for a variety of reasons! sHa_dielaughing


Dang, just when you think he cant be anymore of an butt hat, sAng_soapbox I get a good laugh out of
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Post Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:16 pm 
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Thanks for joining us Fletch, I think you'll enjoy it here :1992_beer_cheer:

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Dang, just when you think he cant be anymore of an butt hat, sAng_soapbox I get a good laugh out of
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Damn that position must pay well over there, and if it doesn't it should to deal with that BS

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Post Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:39 pm 
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Fletch,

After looking at what all you have going on there, if it was me, I would take measurements of hull width, stringer height to match where the floor sits so there isn't that big space for all that putty or real close. Remove the entire liner and redo the stringers since the liner is completely solid glass. Replace the stringers with the Aquasport style (foam filled) and reinstall the liner. Looks like it would be less work in the end and no further rot issue.

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Post Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:11 am 
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Hey guys, thanks for the welcome!

SO, there are a few things I plan on changing now that I'm doing a full on rebuild.

1. I'm getting rid of the livewells. The design was terrible, and the hatches arent water tight. More of a sinking liability then they are worth. I'll use my 5 gallon bucket setup for what little live baiting I do.

2. TOYING with the idea of replacing the center console with one from a 22 Competition:

http://competitionboats.net/model-22/gallery/

3. Tossing the coffin and building a box for the fuel tank. Will have hatch access under the console.

4. I mentioned this prior, but the bow rail is headed to the recycling plant.

5. The hullsides will be Ice Blue Awlcraft 2000, snow white liner, Kiwigrip deck.

6. Custom t top, white stamoid top.

Stringers, deck, and transom are being built with composite board similiar to Airex (formerly Penske).

Kevin, not a chance that liner is coming out without destroying it. It is glassed/ bonded/ reglassed/ fused glued and screwed. I couldnt even get the portion I removed already out without cutting it to pieces. This damn thing was intended to be dissasembled with dynamite.

In regards to building the stringers, I need to do some research to understand how to "Loft" the design. I need to onviously paintain the deck height. Any insight guys? Outside of freakin cardboard?

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Post Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:04 pm 
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Christian, "lofting" typically comes into play during hull design...forefoot angle, deadrise as the forefoot transitions upward from the hull bottom, that kind of shit. Deadrise starts becoming variable (and steeper) from about midships forward. Obviously, stringer fitment is a WHOLE lot easier at the hull design stage as the designer knows what angles he's dealing with, the stringer angles are simply complementary to the hull angles to form the 90*...which is your cockpit sole, parallel with the waterline.

That being said, since you have no clue as to what the angles are, it becomes a painstaking process. I get a rough estimate as far as hull bottom angle and upsweep angle...and then it's a whole lot of fit, cut, fit, cut, fit, cut, etc. The fun part is the aft end of the stringer, where the hull is transitioning from a relatively constant deadrise to an almost continuously changing deadrise. Not a whole lot of fun, but with patience, obviously doable. The biggest PITA in climbing in and out of the boat!!!

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Post Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:17 pm 
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Yep, I knew lofting wasnt the correct term, but it sounded better than "calculating the rise and run over a said area, as it relates to a curve, that is not uniform in it's curvature".

I had thoughts of using a piano wire, and using that as the baseline for the deck height. , Then measuring every foot from the wire to the outside of the remaining stringer base. At that point I can take those measurements and apply them to the stringer material. Use nails to mark the points and bend somthing around them, and use that as a stencil for an accurate radius, as it applies to the boat's bottom.

That was a mouth full (Thats what she said)

As you saw int he pics, I'm leaving the last 2 inches of stringer glass, with the hopes of placing the new stronger material in there (with thickended epoxy, and tabbing them in. I THINK this is common practice, right? I dont see any signs of delamination, so I think this is a good idea.

I'm not planning on putting foam back in the boat.....is this a bad idea? I mean, if it sinks, it's going to sink really well, and make a very expensive artificial reef.

Any pointers guys? Seriously, remember, I know a lot about boats, however, this is only my 2nd rebuild.

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Post Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:28 pm 
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your pulling the whole deck so you have a ton of options. first things first. what motor was on this boat. what motor are you putting on? whats the weight difference between the 2? i found out on mine, going from a 82 115 evinrude to a 05 150 evinrude was almost to much of a weight difference. at dead rest there was minimal water coming in the scuppers. with my 180lb ass on the back there was water from about 9" from the transom, not much but the scuppers were not above the water line. with me and a 200lb guy on the back (simulating bringing in a good size fish) the water went about 24" from the transom. even a small wave could have started a bad chain reaction. i didnt do a full rebuild so i cheated and put in ball scuppers. your doing a full rebuild, so that is something to take into account while your still in the planning stages. while the steep deadrise is great, at a stop it makes for a little more bobbing allowing water to move around. something to think about.

while you might not use the in deck livewell, there is a ton of space under the deck of this boat. you can make the compartments pretty water tight. i have some serious cabin management due to flying. there is nothing on the deck while im motoring so there is no such thing as to much storage for me. think outside the box, instead of a livewell make it a cooler or something. i love built in fish boxes next to the console and iirc that area is pretty deep on that boat. even with those 3 things there is still plenty of room for the fuel tank, and coffin if you choose.

i vote for new foam. yeah if you sink it/ capsize it your boat is screwed either way. but when i have to come looking for you in the middle of the night on minimum sleep, or first thing in the am, its easier to see the boat than just you floating around. also for this reason please dont paint the bottom of your boat black. i can go on for hours about my job. but its things to think about, you dont need us until your having the worst day of your life, why make it worse? as an added bonus, if you decide to do the in deck coolers its insulation.

now for the stringer height and placement. hydrasport put a ton of r&d in this and it has lasted for 30+ years. no need to change it if it isnt broke. so i wouldnt change where they are at. if you want to hear my overly complicated way of measuring everything ill post it. its basically designing the same kind of manual we use in aircraft consisting of stations, frames and datum. Like Bob said with fitting the stringers, trim, fit, repeat. theres a reason everyone uses thickened resin. you pretty much just plop it down and the resin does the fitting for you.

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Post Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:35 am 
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Christian, you can use a spiling batten or a story stick.. I did a write up on the spiling batten on CAS and Lewis did one on the story stick, will post here too..

And most defiantly x2 what Corey said! If this is the hull you are going to keep spend some time dreaming of the best place to put everything and there can never be enough below decks storage.. When you think of foam, remember Miss D and the block foam, that was a great idea, only something a master rebuilder :rolleyes: :laugh: stirthepot.gif might have come up with...

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Last edited by dburr on Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:46 am 
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From Koz's rebuild..

Christian to make your life easier, I would line the temp stock up with the proposed stringer top height with a temporary expanding brace.. Couple of reversible Quick grip clamps and some 2x4 and you are on your way.. Will see if I can find a picture, it would be a long winded description..

The spiling batten is a variation on the story stick. The biggest difference is the use of a compass. The principle goes back to simple geometry that some Greek dude came up with a long damn time ago, but us mortals failed to envision or recognize the usefulness of the obtuse rules that we all hated to memorize :roll:

“An arc when drawn of a constant radius will produce a center when two or more arcs of identical length are drawn from points along that arc to define the center.” :idea:

In plank on frame construction a batten made up of smaller pieces of stock fastened together and temporarily fastened in place is used to get out the shape of the next plank using a compass set to desired dimension. The point of the compass is placed on the marking up the frame that defines the top edge of the new plank and an arc is swung on the batten. The compass point then goes on the existing plank top edge to define the bottom edge of the new plank and another arc is swung. This is done at each frame or at any point where the guy doing the spiling thinks it is necessary to get out the most accurate shape (in the case of the last plank or” shutter plank”). The batten is then pulled off the hull and placed on the planking stock and fastened down to keep accidents from happening. The compass is then used to swing multiple small arcs to define the center point of each arc on the batten. You end up with lots of little Xs that you then connect using a fairing batten and low and behold the shape is as closely defined as it can be using a pencil.

A fairing batten is nothing more than a clear straight piece of stock that bends relatively easily and consistently and is big enough to take a hold down nail without splitting or developing a hard spot. :oops: I have ¾ square poplar, cedar and white pine that all work well for long sections and ¼ and ½ square of the same woods for smaller stuff.. Some guys insist on only using hardwood and others will use acrylic.. Bottom line is use what you have access to and what works.

So, we make this work for us by gathering up some good scrap, (I have had decent success with 3/16 luan after sanding the surface with 220). For the area that you want to define you lay the scrap down in a rough approximation of the shape you want. For your deck I see a series of pieces that are 4-6 inches wide, held together with but blocks and gusseted in the corners. These would be divided into easily handled sections with cross bracing close enough to the interior sections that you need to get dimensions for, tank coffin corners, rigging tubes and such, so you can grab arcs for them at the same time…

Then you grab what you have determined to be the best compass for the job and start swinging long arcs (3-6 inches, longer if able) at as many points as you need to define the shape. The longer the arc you scribe the more accurate the center will be. The compass can be a set of trammel points, and old beam compass, your old drafting compass, or steal the one from your kids school bag..

The important piece is to have the compass be lockable and make damn sure once you start you maintain a constant radius for a given set of arcs. Nothing says you can’t use multiple radii if the spiling batten is a little too far from a point you want to take, but make SURE you note the different radii.

You then remove the batten from the boat and lay it on your decking material fasten it down and then start swinging the center points of all the arcs. The best set up would have the but blocks on top of the batten so it will lay flat on the decking stock. Once the points are down, connect them with the batten and your all set but for the cutting.

Hopefully this is clear enough, if not let me know and I will try and get you squared away. This is such a useful and easy way to define shapes that cannot be traced or lofted that once you figure it out, you will begin to use it anywhere you need to get a really good inside fit on a nonstandard shape..

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